The Truth About Eating Disorders: A Conversation with Doreen Fleischer | Ep.29

Chanci Dawn: 00:00:00

Hello my friend welcome to today's episode super, super pumped, you're here because I have such an amazing interview in store for you. This woman who I just had a conversation with is she is in her early 20s and the work that she's already doing in this world, it just blows my mind. So she is a coach for women who are recovering from eating disorders as well as extreme hunger. And she's a student of psychology and she is literally just rocking it. I love her enjoy this conversation with Doreen Fleischer.

Chanci Dawn: 00:00:39

This show is about freedom. Freedom from your constant struggle with food and letting the size of your thighs determine your worth. Join me weekly for no hope bath, unfiltered girlfriend kind of conversations that will inspire, teach and empower you. As we tune into our own body's wisdom and tune out of the diet industry lives, we can live our most radiant, pleasurable and fulfilled lives. My name is Chanci dawn. I'm a non diet nutritionist embodiment and mindset coach. But most importantly, I'm a woman on a mission to grow a deeply connected and conscious relationship with food and my body. And I'm here inviting you to do the same. Let's go.

Chanci Dawn: 00:01:27

Hello, and welcome, Doreen, thank you so much for coming on here today. Before we push record, I was just like, telling her how amazing I think she is. I'm like, why don't I wait and tell everyone. So the thing I I've already shared with you during but what I love is that you're in your early 20s. And already you are doing such amazing, powerful work in this world. And when I came across you on Instagram, and then looked at your website, and I was just like, oh, like it totally pulled on my mom heartstrings, right, because my kids aren't that much younger than you. And, and just my own heartstrings of how I already shared with you that when I was in my 20s I wanted to be doing what you are doing. But I didn't think I was old enough. I had enough wisdom and experience and I needed like 10 years of education. But here you are doing amazing work in the world with women in eating disorder recovery, and you're a student of psychology and you're just going for it. So welcome to it tastes like freedom. I am so honored to have you here.

Doreen Fleischer: 00:02:36

I'm so honored to be here on the show. I have so so I didn't know your show before listening for before you sent me a text message and then listen to your show. And I was like, Oh, wow, this podcast is actually really good. How did I never come across your podcast before. So I'm very honored to be here and your words are like a very warm hug. I feel very welcome.

Chanci Dawn: 00:03:01

Well, thank you. Thank you for your compliments on the podcast. Yes, it's still so new. But I'm like get the word out there because it's totally my passion project. So thank you. And it's so great to have you here. So obviously the listeners can hear your beautiful accent. Most of my listeners are Australian Canadian and from the US. So where are you in the world today?

Doreen Fleischer: 00:03:25

I'm from Germany. My accent is not that German

Chanci Dawn: 00:03:30

sound South African?

Doreen Fleischer: 00:03:31

Yeah. i Yeah, I'm from Germany. So if I pronounced anything's wrong, don't be too harsh on me. Yeah.

Chanci Dawn: 00:03:41

Well, I was really impressed when I went to your website and it all it was all in German. And then I had to click and then it came. You know, I was like, wow, that's like, very impressive. I don't know. I just think you're awesome. So Doreen, you work with women? And well what age of like, do you work mainly with women? Tell me who you work with. Let's start there first.

Doreen Fleischer: 00:04:03

It's my newest women. A boy or a man wants to do my program as well. They are welcomed. But it's usually young lady suffering women from an eating disorder and they need help or guidance on their journey to food freedom or an exception their body. Yeah, I'm working with people that do have an eating disorder and they need a little bit of support and someone to just have their back to keep them on track. will work with

Chanci Dawn: 00:04:33

Okay, great. And I was recently listening to this episode not a it was an episode. I think it was a YouTube thing A friend sent to me about like how to make an awesome podcast and they said, always tell the person's offering in the beginning in case people don't listen to the end. Okay, so would you please share your offering right now? So people know what you can you know provide for them as they listen to the rest. So when they're like this is someone I really want to work with? They'll already know what you do. So yeah, what is your program.

Doreen Fleischer: 00:05:04

So my program is about eating disorder recoveries, specifically restrictive eating disorders. And when I recovered from my own eating disorder, I dealt with extreme hunger a lot. But I couldn't find a lot of resources on the internet, by then I feel like is better now, or you can find a lot of articles now. And so I created this program about healing your extreme hunger and recovery, as it is very challenging. And very, very, many, many changes come along with it. And it has all the resources I wish I had when I was recovering from my extreme hunger. But it's not just about extreme hunger, because we can't tell beforehand how long extreme hunger will last. We also focus on letting go of food rules and learning how to value and accept our body. So yeah, that's what my program is about. And if any listener feels like this may might be for you, then feel free to check out my coaching offer.

Chanci Dawn: 00:06:14

Wonderful, and we're gonna have all your links in the show notes. So everyone can just go right there, Instagram, which is awesome. She has a great Instagram, and then your website and all your stuff will be there. So, so great. So now that all really important stuff is out of the way. Let's get to know you better. Okay, so what was your first experience or memory of having awareness of body confidence issues?

Doreen Fleischer: 00:06:44

Oh, I feel like I grew up hating my body as if it will be my job. If I would have gotten paid for hating my body, I would be rich by now. But I feel like I thought it was normal, to be a teenager and a more curvy body, to hate my body and to shrink my body. I thought that is what I was supposed to do. So I grew up with it. And I never knew it was an issue until I developed an eating disorder. And I went to a therapist, and I actually had to admit, I do have a problem with eating and hating my body is actually not that normal.

Chanci Dawn: 00:07:30

Hmm. Where do you think that came from? Just thinking that Hating Your Body is normal, just having, you know, like normal, negative thoughts? Where did that stem from for you?

Doreen Fleischer: 00:07:44

I think it was, from the people around me talking negatively about their own body. That might have been a little bit bigger. But also these magazines you could find at your grandma's desk always been there about the celebrities and where they were judged for like how their body looks or that they gain weight. Yeah, so I think that has been a part of it. But also, my negative body image has not been just about my body, but also about my, how I perceive myself and what I thought about myself. And that is what I put on my body. The body was not the problem. It was how I felt about myself and what I thought my place in the society would be. Mm hmm.

Chanci Dawn: 00:08:37

Yeah, yes. It's just like such a deep wound that in our culture, you know, the diet culture just loves that wound and it perpetuates, and it like, scratches it right. So that just gives us little band aid solutions, which aren't solutions that actually just festers underneath. So I love that you brought that up. It always is something deeper. It's always something more about that. Yeah. So with your family did your Did you have a primary caregiver as a mom? Was? Is there a moment you're like, Okay, so did your mom recognize this? Or what was your relationship like that there as you were going through all of this.

Doreen Fleischer: 00:09:17

So my mum was one of the persons in my surroundings that talked negatively about her own body. So he thought that it would be normal for me tonight, like my body, or she told me Yeah, I do have a little bit of a bigger body than my friends have. And it gave me the feeling that it's not okay, how I looked and that I should look like them. I don't think that you did it on purpose. But this is what she internalized. So and I took that from her.

Chanci Dawn: 00:09:52

Yeah, and isn't that the truth, right? Like, when I look at parents and how we show up and model this for our children. So often, like I have my daughter, she's with me part time and then with her dad part time, and she shared in a recent podcast that I had her on how in the other home, she's encouraged to diet and too fast the girls, not even 15 She's 14. And, and we were talking on the podcast about how that actually comes from a place of like, care and love and fear that if if this child is overweight, according to society standards, that that's going to negatively impact them. And then what what happens is stuff like that. And you know, I'm so in so much gratitude for my, for my little girl that she, she gets it, and she'll talk about it, and she has decided to never die it to never, you know, succumb to that to that pressure. And, but that is just so normal, right? us moms want to make sure our daughters grow up confident, and with all the different. Oh, I was gonna say all different experiences and everything like that. And there is such a fat phobic culture that we live in that it just perpetuates this issue.

Doreen Fleischer: 00:11:18

Yes, yeah. But honestly, I lucky or she is very privileged to have you in her life. Because I think many young girls grow up in families, and they just have the idea of that. It's, you need to be smaller or that when you're smaller than you have, then you're more worthy, or you're more attractive. So yeah,

Chanci Dawn: 00:11:42

yeah, yeah. Well, thank you. And, yes, it's only through my own struggles, right? And healing that now. I'm like, I'm so passionate about this. For her. It's almost like this mama bear where I'm like, wow. But, and that's how I feel for all girls, all women. So the fact that you're doing this at such a young age and have, you know, come through this on the other side. Again, so impressive. So can you share with us your because in your website, you were talking about how, at first it was just really like a disordered relationship with food. And then when you went away to I guess, I think it was South Africa, you said that that's when like full fledge eating disorder started flaring up for you. So I would love to hear sort of the timeline, like your first experience of intentionally restricting or, you know, manipulating food, controlling food to try to lose weight, and then bring it up to when you realize what was going on. And you started seeing seeing your therapist for healing.

Doreen Fleischer: 00:12:44

Yeah, such a good question. So before I went to South Africa, I went to South Africa for a gap year for everyone that doesn't know, this part of my bio. And even before I went to South Africa, I already struggled with disordered eating habits, but I didn't see it as them. So I would restrict food. I would not eat lunch, for example, but I thought it would be normal. And it would, yeah. Yeah, I thought it's normal to shrink my body intentionally. And there was a lot going on in my mind. I, my parents got a divorce just a couple of years before that. And I never actually processed out who I never talked about anyone about it. So going to South Africa was kind of running away from my problems. But spoiler, you always take your problems with you wherever you go. And when I went to South Africa, I was I was horrified of the idea that I'm going to gain weight there because that is what other volunteers told us that they have gained weight that just because the food is different, or because their daily life look different. It's it's totally normal. And it's actually nothing you should be afraid of. Because going abroad is not about gaining weight, and it should not be about maintaining your smallest body possible. So yeah, that just added up on my drive to shrink my body and to be my smallest version possible. And when I went on that plane, it already started with Okay, now there's actually no one around me that makes sure that I'm eating that is going to ask me if I already had dinner because that's when you when you're a student and you're still with your with your parents, they somehow asked you Did you have lunch? What did you eat? So yeah, and no one was checking if I ate, how much I ate. And, yeah, it was quite difficult in South Africa. Of course. It's far away from home and it's a new situation. And yeah, I had a lot of responsibilities or A lot of fun. And yeah, also, the safety aspect was huge for me, South Africa is not as safe as Germany. And that is when I started to restrict heavily and I lost a lot of weight very quickly. And I thought that it's okay, I'm just shrinking my body, and then I'm going to stop, and then I will start eating again. And then one day, I realized I can't start eating more again. But I also can't keep going, because that will be very dangerous for me. And yeah, that was when I first went on the internet. And then I found out that this actually might be an eating disorder. I kept going for a couple of more months. And then actually, the organization I went to South Africa with, they told me that I should see a therapist or that they want to want me to see a therapist. And yeah, that is when I learned about that I have a full blown eating disorder.

Chanci Dawn: 00:16:07

And isn't it? It's still so shocking to me that I mean, this is the work I do and what I talk about all the time. And it's still so shocking that it can go that far before someone actually says something, right? Because it is glorified. And people Oh, you're losing weight? Well, you look so good. And, and that's one of the things that I'm so passionate about is teaching people not to compliment on people's bodies ever, right? Because you never know what's going on. So as you were shrinking your body, were people complimenting you. Is that something you were experiencing? Yes,

Doreen Fleischer: 00:16:42

definitely. And how did that feel? I felt unsure about it. Because I think the healthy part of me that knew that it was not right, and that it wasn't healthy, that I that it was actually not enjoyable at all. And the other part of me the disorder part that that felt good about it that encouraged me to keep going and to keep shrinking my body. And it also gave me the feeling of that I'm not allowed to go back. So I thought that this was how I have to live from now on because I can't gain weight again, because then people will stop complimenting on my body.

Chanci Dawn: 00:17:21

Yeah, it's such a crazy mind thing, right? It's just spin, spin spin and you know, you're sick, right? You know, you're not feeding your body. Well, well, at the time. You're it's like, okay, you know, you're taking extreme measures, and then later, yes, you know, you're sick. And there's just such a fear to gain in our in our warped mindset society. So, wow. So you went to your therapist, and she was like, diagnosed you right away. And what was recovery, like for you?

Doreen Fleischer: 00:17:53

It was a very bumpy road. So at the time, I was diagnosed, I was still in South Africa. And at first it, it got worse even because I was still scared of like, recovering and maybe gaining weight going back to the body. I hated so much before. And it took me a while to actually commit to recovery. So it wasn't a state where I said, Okay, I start eating more, but I actually didn't or compensated for it. I guess what many people experienced they say, Okay, I recovered, but they actually don't do the work. And yeah,

Chanci Dawn: 00:18:34

so when you say that, sorry to interrupt you. But that's so important, I think, right? Saying Yes, I did this, I went through this, and I recover, but they didn't do the work. So can you talk about that more? Because I think people listening to this need to understand what you mean, with them, like deeper? Mm hmm.

Doreen Fleischer: 00:18:53

Yeah. So usually, we all know what we have to do in order to recover or to get back to a healthy body. People with a restrictive eating disorder, they may need to gain weight, to be actually able to think straight again, because malnourishment also does a lot of damage to our brain. And what often happens at the beginning of recovery is what I like to call quasi recovery. That is when people they may eat more, or they start increasing their food portions, but it's far by far not enough for what they need now in recovery, as a body in recovery actually even needs more food than normal person. Because the body just has to do so much healing and it needs energy for that. And what often also happens is when people still engage in exercising that day, start increasing the amount of exercising or the intensity and it's still form of restricting or compensation. And yeah, to acknowledge or to recognize that you're still restricting, and that you're not actually allowing yourself to fully heal. It may need time. And, yeah, it took me a long time to realize this is actually not how I want to live. I don't want to go to the gym every single day, and I don't want to count my calories. I want full food freedom, I want to go out with my friends. Actually going to the gym is not something I ever enjoy. And I still don't enjoy it. And I don't do it anymore.

Chanci Dawn: 00:20:41

Yeah, so many gems there. I love that. If I don't enjoy it, I'm not going to do it. So what sort of movement Do you love? Like what fills you up? What do you think so pleasurable.

Doreen Fleischer: 00:20:53

So first of all, I changed my mindset from exercising to movement, because already going on a very gentle walk or cleaning the house dancing around the house. It's also a movement. And this is actually what my body craves more than very intense and hard workouts. So, but I still love yoga, or especially in yoga as it is very gentle. Every then and now I go for a run, but it's very intuitively. So when I wake up, and I think, Oh, I feel like going on a run that I go on a run. If I feel like just going on a gentle walk. That's what I'm gonna do. Usually the podcast in my ear. And yeah, so it's very intuitively and I don't force myself to do anything. I don't feel like doing.

Chanci Dawn: 00:21:43

Oh, thank you so much for sharing that. I remember. During my own recovery, I was I used to run the stairs. So we have the speech. And there's these like crazy stairs and everyone feels. It's funny because you see people like posting voter all the time. Like it's kind of like the thing to do on these silly stairs. So I felt pretty proud of myself because I'm like, Oh, yes, I'm doing the stairs. And then one day, I'm like, I hate doing. Like, this is the worst. I hate it. I dread it, I wake up wanting to go back to bed. And yet here I am forcing myself and why. And that was one of the first things that I started really like questioning. And I actually before I worked in the niche I do, I put it on Facebook. And I remember like doing this write up like I will never do these stairs again. And it was such freedom. And then my body was like, Ooh, let's do this. Let's do that. Let's do that. And I love that when we get out of our own way of the shoulds. And in that like disordered thinking pattern, or just gives us our bodies, such expansiveness for pleasure. Like what do I love to do? So I love that it's such a huge part of freedom living.

Doreen Fleischer: 00:22:55

Yes. I love that story. Actually, just today, a coachee. She takes a beat that she's allowed to do sports again, like your doctor gave her to go. And she went on such a long exercising break, like she did no movement at all. And today, she felt like going on a run. So she went on a very short run, because usually she would go on a very long run, she decided to just go for a very short rant tonight, overdo it. And she was so happy at the end, which she thought she would never be able to like actually enjoy running again. And I was so like, yeah, I was so happy for her, that she's actually able to enjoy it again, after not exercising for such a long time.

Chanci Dawn: 00:23:42

Yeah, that whole pleasure factor bringing it back and being like I'm doing this like with and for my body not to try to control and punish her. Right? That's so such a shift of so, so powerful. Okay, so one of the things oh, one question I would love for you to speak on is what is the difference between disordered eating and an eating disorder?

Doreen Fleischer: 00:24:07

Um, so disordered eating might mean that people meet some criterias of an eating disorder, for example, they go on diets, they limit their calorie intake, but they don't have like the full blown eating disorder, if you want to call it like that. And yeah, I feel like disordered eating is what we see. And a lot of people and today's society because a lot of people they go on diets and then they regain all the weight again, some people feel bad about eating certain foods or they put labels on food. That is what we might call disordered eating. And it is eating disorder. They have criterias, which are mentioned in the diagnostic manual. And yeah, I think that's like the Huge difference between eating and disordered eating.

Chanci Dawn: 00:25:03

And in your experience and what you see, do you usually find that that women struggle with the disordered? Yeah, disordered eating, and it just perpetuates, and then it goes just like for you all of a sudden boom, full for like flesh eating disorder? Is that usually the pattern that you find?

Doreen Fleischer: 00:25:24

I would, I would not say that it is always the case. But it lead to an eating disorder. So disordered eating might be the beginning of an eating disorder. But not everyone that goes on a diet also will develop an eating disorder.

Chanci Dawn: 00:25:40

Mm hmm. So is there certain things that you notice that, like personality traits, I'm just getting super curious here, right? So because I have my own thoughts and experience with this, but it's such a cool thing to dig into. So when you see like the, the people you've worked with, and in your own experience, and in your training? Is there a certain? Can you see red flags, like heading into an eating disorder? Like is are there personality traits or certain different things that you can kind of notice? Or is it very random?

Doreen Fleischer: 00:26:17

I would not say that just a random person will develop develop an eating disorder, even though everyone could develop an eating disorder eventually. So for example, perfectionism is a personality trait that is often associated with eating disorders, but also like genetic components, and environmental factors play a huge role in the development of an eating disorder.

Chanci Dawn: 00:26:41

Mm hmm. Can you speak more about that? The environmental factors, I'd love to hear more about that.

Doreen Fleischer: 00:26:48

So it could be the surrounding your living in, like big traumas or little traumas. It's not always a very big trauma, it could be just like your parents getting a divorce, when it's not a very safe environment, when your parents might be very judge mentor about you like or what you're doing. Also, people that may be very perfectionistic with their grades like in school. Yeah, that can be so many environmental factors, like little stressors that could lead to the development of an eating disorder.

Chanci Dawn: 00:27:25

Yes, it's, it's really fascinating. And it can just be like a little Oh, little click, and then it's like, oh, here we go. Yeah, my heart just goes out to so many young girls right now who are struggling. And you know, I just, I work primarily with women in their 30s to mid 50s, right? And my heart is just looking at these. I'm like, how do we intercept at a younger age. So my job doesn't even need to be here anymore. Right, like, so. That is, that is such a passion of mine, when I think about it, like reaching the younger generation. So they grow up in freedom, and like looking at you 21 years old, and you're, I don't want to say you've got it all figured out. No one does at all. Right? So I'm not gonna put that on you. That's a lot of pressure. But to see where you're at here, that is my wish for all girls. So speaking to the moms and the aunts and the grandmas who are listening, and the friends right of, of girls that we're seeing the red flags, something's going on. Right? This is how they're disordered eating, full fledge eating disorder, whatever. What would you suggest? What is your recommendation on how to approach it with with them,

Doreen Fleischer: 00:28:56

I think the first step must be that the person actually or the grandma or the mother, they will get their own eating habits or look at their own perception about their body. Because, as we already mentioned, is that when the mom or the grandma talks negatively about their own body, that this is what the little girl will pick up. And we'll talk negatively about her own body as well because she's the daughter she may have the same body type and if your mom is judging her body, then the girl must have to judge her own body as well. So healing your own relationship with food and your body might be like the very first step so that you can be a role model for your little girl to actually accept and value your body no matter how it looks.

Chanci Dawn: 00:29:48

Yeah, there's so many different things I just like I just want to like pick you out of Germany and bring you here to Canada and like, hang out with you and like make you hang out with all the young girls in town because It's like, I'm just so really, really touched by all of this and our conversation. So I just did a podcast, it'll come out what days it in two days on our rulebook, right, and then the podcast before that was on boundaries. And talking about one of my very, very clear boundaries that I have absolutely have no room for otherwise is my mom talking negative negatively about her body in front of my daughter. And this is like an absolute boundary. And it when she does, because of course, boundaries, we set them for ourselves not control to control other people. So listener, go back and listen to that boundary episode, if you haven't already. So my mom still does, she'll still bring it up, because again, that's her conditioning, that is just who she is almost in her 70s. And it breaks my heart, but my job and our job listeners like we are here to protect, right. So as you're healing your relationship with food in your body. And if you have young girls in your life, it is absolutely a boundary that you can set that you will remove her and yourself from the situation, if this if this comes up and to be able to then talk about it with her. So that has been a very difficult boundary to set. Because of course, my mom gets upset when I'll say something or remove ourselves or whatever. And but in this, it's so important to learn how to be okay with other people's discomfort in this so that we can be the advocates and we can really be those role models that they need. Right? So I love that you were talking about that like healing your own relationship. And it's always a work in progress. I still have my days where I'm like, Oh, my goodness, my body, this my body that and my brain is like you should probably go on that shake cleanse thing again, you did that you lost all that way, right? And there's all these thoughts, but it's like, it is nonlinear. And that's what's so important is healing. And would you agree on that, like you don't have to be there in order to be the role model that your daughter needs, or your niece.

Doreen Fleischer: 00:32:13

Yeah, I think it's also very unrealistic to never have a bad bad body image, when you come from a place of hating your body as if they will be your job. And that's okay. You can have a bad body image, but still not talk negatively in front of your daughter about your body or even to yourself. If you have a bad body image, maybe you need to just need to dig a little bit deeper and figure out what is actually going on what in your life is not going as you want it to be or what do you need?

Chanci Dawn: 00:32:48

Yes, and I think still having those thoughts yet not speaking them. And starting to become aware, it can be a huge part of your own journey towards your own healing. So I think that's a big thing. Like when we can see the our daughters and our nieces and whoever else as gifts in that like, wow, this is really showing me a mirror here of where I want to heal where I want to end. Such a deep why behind it. You know, I don't want her to go through the same things. Right? Yes. So I think that that is it is it can be such a gift that we can give her and she gives us back and it's this beautiful cycle instead of the cycle of, you know, dieting, and restricting and depriving and heating instead, it's like let's cycle up together.

Doreen Fleischer: 00:33:41

Yeah, I love that.

Chanci Dawn: 00:33:42

Yeah, I would love to hear now, if you feel comfortable. And if it's a boundary thing, like if this isn't appropriate, no problem. But do you feel comfortable sharing about your relationship with your mom now doing the work you're doing and what you've gone through? Like, what is that for you? Now? What does that look like?

Doreen Fleischer: 00:34:00

So I still live at home. I still live with my mom. And I would say as probably every young woman that it's not easy and not always easy to live with your parents at the age of 21 i by improving my own relationship with my body with food and especially myself as a person, also my relationships. Like God better day. Healing Your relationship with food does not only heal your relationship with food, but also your relationship with others or how you are able to engage with people. And even though my mom was not the perfect mom during my eating disorder recovery journey, she still acknowledge now or she can accept my boundary that I won't talk about diets or losing weight or if she mentioned that she gained weight that If she shakes out that I'm not going to continue talking about it, because I know it's not doing any good for me. And I also know that this is not the way she should talk about her. But I also know that I can't fix her problems as well. So if she wants to heal her relationship with food and her body, if she's read deeper it, then she will do the work. And she will. Maybe she will ask me if I have any resources for her, but I can't force her to heal her relationship with food.

Chanci Dawn: 00:35:34

Mm hmm. Yeah. I that is so mature. I'm like, I just want to give you a big hug. That's just so beautiful. And what a beautiful role model, you know, your being for your mom was so much compassion as well, right? I can't force her I, she's here. I love her. And I have my boundaries. Yet. This is still her journey. And as you're an adult, now, this is wonderful. Knowing my mom can say she can do she can act in a way that when she's still, you know, in the diet culture mentality, but it doesn't have to negatively impact you anymore, right? Like you can own that and move forward in such freedom in that. Yeah, done. Well done. I'm so proud of you, man. It's just so good. So it's funny, because I actually invited you on here, I wanted to talk about different types of eating disorders that are not that well known. All right. And now it's like time up. And we just had such a beautiful conversation. And I it's so rich, and, and lovely. And I'm so grateful for it. But before we leave, I would love to hear maybe just to if you can just share about to do you have time for that. Does that work for you? Okay, sure. All right. Thank you. So I would love to two eating disorders that are not. So that's why I want to talk about the difference between disordered eating and eating disorder, right. So in that one post, you did like these were eating disorders that a lot of times people don't realize that they are a lot of times they just think it's really smart. Or just like, oh, look what I figured out. Right. And I've had experience with this in my own life, which I will share as well. I did, I think in episode one. But please share two of these. And then I think I think it's just so valuable because of the way that disordered eating and moving into full fledged eating disorders is often so glorified in our, in our society. So let's just bring light to them

Doreen Fleischer: 00:37:37

as we go into orthorexia, because I feel like that is the one that is glorified, and that is actually encouraged by society, people with orthorexia. They may be like encouraged to actually keep continuing eating healthy, which is not that healthy when you look at it. But yeah, diet culture, it masks, the orthorexia. And what is orthorexia? For those who don't know orthorexia is the drive to eat healthy, but it's more than just eating healthy. It's like the obsession to eat healthy and buy it. The amount of food or the kinds of foods you are allowed to eat the pure foods, the natural foods, the unprocessed foods are clear. Mahmoud's. Oh, yes.

Chanci Dawn: 00:38:32

That's a big word there. Yeah.

Doreen Fleischer: 00:38:35

Yeah. And it actually can lead to malnourishment and unhealthy weight loss, it can lead to feeling stressed around food. Like imagine being invited to a birthday party where no clean food is sort of like a birthday cake that is not just dates and yeah, right. Yeah, so orthorexia. It adds more stress and more harm to your body than it might seem from the outside. People with orthorexia. They may not know at the beginning that this is actually an eating disorder and that it is not normal to feel stressed about going out with friends and having dinner because they might bring the two provato. You know what that is? Do you have that in Canada like that lunchboxes?

Chanci Dawn: 00:39:27

Yes, it's true. And I think that became a huge thing when clean eating was the way to I remember when I had my first child, so that was like 17 years ago. And clean eating was such a huge thing. And I remember Yeah, packing around everywhere I went, it was like the perfect foods and you would eat that instead of family dinners and you'd have that and there was this little bit of a moral superiority about it, right like there's this like, oh, wow, look at how good I'm being and judging and but just actually dying inside and then going home and usually binging right, I see that happens a lot with orthorexia. Would you agree on that? Yes,

Doreen Fleischer: 00:40:08

I would definitely. It's because when you're restricting food when you're like limiting the kinds of foods you're eating, and when you see everyone eating that birthday cake, you actually also want to eat and then you're eating your bean paste. That is a normal response of your body to binge like you're on a cyclic these foods are restricted.

Chanci Dawn: 00:40:30

Mm hmm. So notice this, if this is something that is going on in your life, or maybe your teens life and just pay attention, because that, you know, the excessive perfection, and fear around food is definitely a red flag to look for. Okay. Yes. Thank you for sharing about that. So the next one, and I could I want to talk about this all day long. I just wish we could, but obviously, no one wants to listen to a five hour podcast. Okay.

Doreen Fleischer: 00:41:01

Um, yeah, so, we could now talk about our favorite is the avoidance and restrictive food intake disorder. And that is a the eating disorder that not actually is caused by the drive of losing weight. But it might be caused, for example, by the fear of vomiting or choking, that could be cause of our fate, but also, children that don't outgrow their picky eating behaviors, even though our food goes way beyond picky eating. Yeah, so that people that are afraid, they may experience a lack of interest in in eating or a lack of appetite, but also a distaste of certain smells, tastes textures are fair is a restrictive food intake disorder. That also means that it can lead to malnourishment result could be that they actually need to feeding because the kind of foods they feel like they can enjoy or they want to eat as becomes less and less until it's very dangerous for your body of course.

Chanci Dawn: 00:42:14

Yeah, very interesting. I don't know a lot about that one. So thank you for bringing that up. I really like to investigate more of that for myself. That's really good. Okay, so yes, my the one one of the reasons your posts really piqued my interest is when I was like, Oh my gosh, I actually have a problem. So what happened is, I was I had my first I think two babies and then I was clean eating and doing all that and then I'm like dying inside because I really want to eat this pleasure foods, I really want to eat Joy foods and eat foods at all right and like, and I remember going to a friend's house and they gave us a tin of Christmas baking. And I came home and I'm like, I'm not going to change this. I'm not going to change this and was just like this huge struggle. And then I'm like, Oh my gosh, I'm just gonna eat and then chew it and then spit it out. So And I sat there and ate the entire tin of Christmas baking. And like I remember I actually felt sore in my mouth like there was like this. It was just so much of it that it was I didn't develop sores but I could feel was like stinging but I couldn't stop and then I kept spitting it out and spitting it out. And I'm like wow, I'll never do that again. But that was smart now I got to eat all I got to enjoy all of it taste it all and you know not gain weight. And that led into a full fledge like five years of I would go to the grocery store. And I would actually feel this like surge of excitement like this adrenaline rush, right? Like we do, and there's planning running disorders. And I had I would go get a bag and I remember I would get these chocolate things called slowpokes, that was my go to. And then after I go to a park, same thing, eat them all and spit them all out and put them in trash. So I was hiding it. Because I knew that it was like, my husband at the time would probably be like what are what like not something I want to do in public, right? But I thought it was just really smart. I was like, I've really like figured this out. So I'm not binging I'm not purging. And, and I've really can still have all this stuff. And then I was like in my kitchen with my baby one day feeding him and Oprah was on in the background. And it was on eating disorders. And she had this one woman talk just like we are today about ones that we just don't talk about. And this came up and I stood there and I just went I started crying. I'm like, Oh my goodness. Like I was a nutritionist that right? And that's yeah, we know and then we don't know and you get caught in this stuff. You get wrapped up and and it's just such a scary cycle. And I stood there and I started crying and I'm like, I need help. Like I need to stop doing this and And I did I got help. And it's definitely it's not an issue at all. Sometimes there's little triggers where I was like, where I could be like, Ooh, I really want to eat all that. And I'm like, you can eat all that if you want. And I'm like, Well, I actually don't want to. And I'm like, okay, so I'll have one. Like, there's such freedom in that in the intuitive eating approach, right? And that's why I find this so nourishing and healing in so many different ways. But that was that that moment was when I was like, Oh, my goodness here or you know, at the tender age of 21. Your age, I was a psychology student, just like you wanting to help people with eating disorders. Little did I know that this was going to be such a huge part of my own life and process and now in my 40s, here I am, right. So having these conversations and noticing the red flags and being educated on the reality of this issue is so important. And that's why thank you for doing what you do. And everyone you need to go follow her. On Instagram. Again, the link will be in the show notes. But why don't you share right now during where people can find you? And they can do that quickly. And yeah, just dissect her feed because she has so many amazing resources and education and wisdom in there. So really, you all need to go. So yeah, share away.

Doreen Fleischer: 00:46:27

Thank you. So yeah, you can find me on Instagram and I don't, I have my own blog, and I am more or less active on Tik Tok as well. And my name is Doris Trent food is everything together. No dots. No. Yeah. Word. And my website is Doris trend for you.com.

Chanci Dawn: 00:46:50

Wonderful, thank you. And yes, tick tock, my gosh, I think I've like my kids are all over it, right. But I actually gave myself freedom to not build a tic tock account. And then there's always that little small voice. You really should you really should. I'm like, Oh my gosh, I don't even know where to begin. I've done a couple of reels on Instagram. And I'm like, Okay, that's good for five years. So yeah, so your feed is your social media is just so awesome to go on, and really inspiring. So thank you for doing what you do. And before we go, is there any last words of wisdom you'd love to share with the audience?

Doreen Fleischer: 00:47:28

Yeah. If you feel like that any of these eating disorders we talked about may resonate with you don't wait and wait until you get worse or until you feel like you deserve health. You deserve to get better. Now. Don't wait until you feel even worse until it's even harder to get out of this eating disorder. And even if you don't feel like recovering now, now is the best time to recover. You will never feel 100% ready for it. Talk about it. Reach out to people reach out to professionals. Talk to your doctor. And don't give up.

Chanci Dawn: 00:48:06

Beautiful that is such great wisdom. Well, thank you, my dear. Have a beautiful night. It's the start of my day. And you are you going to bed now? What time is it there?

Doreen Fleischer: 00:48:15

I'm not yet. I think it's around 730. Okay. Yeah.

Chanci Dawn: 00:48:22

Well, thank you for making room in your schedule to do this. And I look forward to staying connected and maybe we'll have you on again. One day. I would love that because this conversation has been really beautiful.

Doreen Fleischer: 00:48:33

Oh, yeah, I'd love to be here again as well. I really enjoyed that conversation.

Chanci Dawn: 00:48:37

Thank you so much, Kay, bye. Bye, everyone.