Dating After Divorce, Sex, Body Confidence & You Being The Boss of You: A Conversation with Sade Curry | Ep. 31

Chanci Dawn: 00:00:00

Hello, dear listener, welcome Do I ever have a treat for you? I just had the most amazing conversation with a dating coach for divorced women. And if you're not a divorce woman who's dating, that's okay. This is absolutely going to give you so many beautiful tools of wisdom and knowledge. So definitely tune in. And if you happen to have a friend who is dating after divorce, send her this please, truly you will be doing her the world's biggest favor. So welcome. And I hope you love this conversation was Sade Curry.

Chanci Dawn: 00:00:42

This show is about freedom. Freedom from your constant struggle with food and letting the size of your thighs determine your worth. Join me weekly for no hold back unfiltered girlfriend can have conversations that will inspire, teach and empower you. As we tune into our own body's wisdom and tune out of the diet industry live. We can live our most radiant, pleasurable and fulfilled lives. My name is Chanci dawn. I'm a non diet nutritionist embodiment and mindset coach. But most importantly, I'm a woman on a mission to grow a deeply connected and conscious relationship with food and my body. And I'm here inviting you to do the same. Let's go.

Chanci Dawn: 00:01:30

Welcome, Sade. This is just so awesome. We've been chatting a bit and I'm like, I'm divorced. And I'm like telling you my whole story. I'm just so excited for you to be on here. And I'm so grateful. And thank you for your patience because it's taken a bit to organize it to get on. So welcome to it tastes like freedom.

Sade Curry: 00:01:50

Yeah, thank you so much for having me can see it's a pleasure to be on here. I know I was more than happy to be on with you. But I forgot to reschedule. So it's all good. It's all good. stars aligned. We're here today. I'm excited to talk about this.

Chanci Dawn: 00:02:05

Absolutely. Well, thank you. And as I was sharing with you, I've been following you for a while. I'm not sure how we got connected on social media. But we did thankfully, lots of mutual coach friends and friends. So and I've been following your work and just so impressed with your approach and also your niche specifically for divorced woman, right as a divorced woman, and so many of my friends are, oh my gosh, there's such a need for what you do. And also your approach is so fun. Like your videos, everything. So why don't we just start by you sharing where people can find you and your main offer dating after divorce Academy. Okay, I love to kind of get that shared in the beginning, in case the listeners don't go to the end. We don't want them to miss it. So why don't you share that first and then we'll go into all the things dating. Yeah,

Sade Curry: 00:02:57

absolutely. So yes, I am a life coach for divorce women, specifically those who are dating after the divorce who wants to be partnered or remarried after their divorce? Really the best place to find me is my podcast, the dating after divorce podcast and really everywhere on social media Instagram, Facebook, Pinterest, Tik Tok at Sade Curry Sade S A D E Curry. Yeah, so basically shatter curry all over the internet. And yeah, my heart is really for the divorce. The dating process after divorce, I will I had already become a coach before I got remarried. I was dating and I was coaching divorced men through their journey. And when I started sharing my love story, you know, after my now husband at the time boyfriend, we made it official. We made it official about on like social media official, about a year after we'd been dating because we really just wanted to take our time and stay under the radar. And then people started reaching out and being like, yeah, I want that too. Can you help me with that? And I was like, oh, okay, I didn't realize that this was like such a big deal. Yeah, so I niched down at the time to the dating practice, because it was such a big piece of the journey, like divorce is like a really long journey. There's the deciding to get divorced journey. There's the divorce journey itself is co parenting, there's recovering and rebuilding after your divorce. And indeed, it was just its own thing. So I felt like I was spreading myself a little thin. And I said, I'm just gonna figure out this dating thing out, I figure it out for myself, but I wonder if I can figure it out for everybody else. So that's kind of how I mish down I got started there.

Chanci Dawn: 00:04:37

So great. I've like I just think that's such a fun niche to, you know, these women who are like, ready to claim themselves and really get back into it. And one of the things that I was really when I was looking at your website that I think is really fun, even though you are very niched down into divorce it or into dating after divorce. I love that you're dating after divorce. Academy touches on healing, right? So like really healing through divorce. And I also love that you put your you'll never like no one is always there. It's never complete. I think I thought I was just like goosebumps. Thank you. So literally,

Sade Curry: 00:05:15

the divorce. And I think that's the spin on it. My personal philosophy around divorce is I listen, as a divorced woman, you get to do whatever you want. And I say that just because many of us now this is not may not be true for everyone. But I think many of us spent so much time trying to please everyone in our first marriage like we wanted our marriage was for parents, and it was like for our community was the quote unquote, right marriage, married to the right guy in the marriage, doing all the right things for the guy and the kids and keeping the marriage together, because that was the right thing. Like, now that that's all done, yes. To do whatever we want. And that was my philosophy coming out of my DMs. I'm like, listen, I know, please keep all your rules. Keep all your formula. So when I started hearing things, like, oh, yeah, you need to like, stay single for one year for every three years that you were married before you date. I was like, no.

Chanci Dawn: 00:06:14

Yeah, goodness sakes, no. Yeah. Cuz it wasn't, it was just the same thing. That

Sade Curry: 00:06:18

was what I had heard before I got my was okay. So you need to be this. And you need to be that and you need to do it this way. And I was like, no, what if we just burn it all down and start it over authentically, really been in touch with our desires in touch with what we wanted in touch with what the life that we actually want to live for the second half? For those of us who did it a little bit later, like, being in touch and then living from that North Star? So your North Star is what do you want? What works for you? And so often I get questions about like, well, so does this guy. Should I tell him this? And should I tell him that I'm this one, I'm like, I can't tell you exactly what to do, because it's really going to depend on you. And even the guidelines that I give, I'm doing a I have a webinar coming up this Friday, talking about the ideal partner checklist. And I was like, there are some things that are not very useful on the list. But they might be useful for someone else. So if a woman is six, two, it might be useful for her to want a man who is six, two and above. Right? Why is five, five? It might not be useful, or it might be useful. I might I don't know. But we have to talk about what experience you're trying to have, where you have this checklist. But what the world and the culture keeps trying to tell us is that there are rules, and that if you do it right, then you meet someone. And if you haven't done it right, then you don't meet someone. But actually what happens is you have to do it right for you.

Chanci Dawn: 00:07:40

Amazing. And I love that that really ties into a couple of shows ago when I actually talked about the manual, right, that rule book. So if the listeners have been listening, they're so familiar with that rule book and burning it, because it is doing what you need to do for you. And I especially think it's so valuable to remind women that post divorce or going through that divorce, and on the other side, because like you said, everything has been the rules and for other people. And that's such a common story. It definitely was mine, for sure. So I think that is beautiful, burn the rule books and do what you want to do and be clear on that. And the North Star. Yes. That is your north star that is your guiding light. So, so beautiful. And I think that, you know, one of the things that so important to me is the just leading from that intuition, and an understanding that we were all so different and dropping that rule. And when you're able to do that, that's when like the juicy life happens. That's when things just open up for you.

Sade Curry: 00:08:47

100% 100% Yeah, yeah.

Chanci Dawn: 00:08:51

So fun. That is just so neat. So yes, dating after divorce is healing and then dating, and healing and dating, right. And then you have the

Sade Curry: 00:09:01

commitment, right, like the intimacy because it's a whole new dance. Yes. Yeah. And depending on where you were before, if you had a tough childhood, you've learned one dance in your family of origin. You learned a different dance in your first or second marriage. And now when you finally have this healthy marriage, it's very surprising. We all assume that oh, I'm gonna get into this healthy relationship and everything's gonna be fine. But then we don't realize that oh, wait. I don't know how to do this. I don't know how to open my heart and share with someone I don't know how to be in conflict with someone when there's actually a true healthy conflict without shutting down or overreacting. I don't know how to mend things with someone who's truly trying to mend it with me and many times we then lean on our partner to do it right. And if he's not, like, taking us along, then we we don't even have anything to bring to the table or vice versa. It's really a dance that you learn together. Whether and what you're looking for the second time around is someone who's willing to learn that dance with you who is healthy enough and self aware enough emotionally intelligent enough to be like, okay. We're a great couple, but this piece of it isn't working. What we need to do to figure this out,

Chanci Dawn: 00:10:18

I am getting goosebumps quite a bit. That's when my body's like, this is a you know, this isn't your Northstar. Like, like, yes. And I think about my own relationship now, you know, after divorce and dating and, and I'm so grateful like, I actually feel emotional when you're saying that because finally I found a man attracted a man because I was very clear all the things that you teach on what I wanted, and, and the communication and the willing to work through things is is next level. So that is just so good. Okay, now, the main reason I asked you on here course all the dating stuff and dating after divorce, and all the things we've been talking about amazing. I really want to get into the nitty gritty of intimacy, and self like body image and self confidence when you're going through this process because it can be so scary and intimidating and really exciting. So many different emotions go through, you know, for me, at least I was like, I had only physically been with my husband and we were married for like 15 years or No, not that long. It felt that long. Felt like, No, it wasn't 50 We were married for I think 11 years. And it's funny, I don't even really remember that now. That's healing, right?

Sade Curry: 00:11:42

No faraway dream that you once had. Exactly.

Chanci Dawn: 00:11:47

With the stranger. I'm like, That's so weird. But I was I remember myself being terrified of dating and even kissing someone else for the first time and going, you know, getting I met my ex when I was 19. And then I was in my early 30s When we separated and divorced. And oh, it was like such a new scene from when I was dating. First of all, expectations were different. Online dating freaked me out. I got a few dick pics sent. And I was like, what the actual heck like? And I was just like, Ah, so let's dig into that. Okay, so what do you find that that is a common thing that you're coaching on? First of all, is body image. Okay,

Sade Curry: 00:12:33

yeah. So two things, let's talk about just even the fear of intimacy or even like, getting back into the terrain. And like how does a lot of this work like I don't, I'm afraid to kiss someone. One of the things that happens, and this is just because of the way marriage is designed, and the cultural narrative around it, many women I know, it was true. For me, it's true for many of my clients, it's sort of this arrested development that happens when we get married, especially if you got married young, in your late teens, I got married at 21. The first time around, usually around that age, if you get married, it's almost like there was still some development that was meant to be happening. If you think about it, our brains aren't completely developed until we're 25. So you're like

Chanci Dawn: 00:13:20

essentially growing up with this person raising

Sade Curry: 00:13:24

their parts of your emotional growth, stop parts of your exploratory growth. So when you come out of the divorce, 30 something like me, I think I was 39 when I got divorced, you feel like a teenager again. Because the part of you that's choosing a life partner that's dating that's in the quote unquote, in the market was stuck at 19 was actually never a full grown adult.

Chanci Dawn: 00:13:51

So true. I remember like when I first started online dating and getting like the ding messages, and I remember at one point I ran and I like, jumped onto my bed and I like opened it up. And I actually, what are you doing? explains it.

Sade Curry: 00:14:14

You can't you literally went right back to that stage and picked your development up from where you stopped, right? Which is beautiful in the sense that oh, there was this other part of me that needed to grow up. They needed to explore that he needed to sort of date from an authentic space versus Oh, my girlfriend's I like doing this and like blah, blah, blah, and all that cute stuff. And like really come to this authentic place and choose from that space. And it's sort of like this little growth, like a little growth spurt that happens when you start dating again, which is I feel like dating after divorce is such a transformational container. For anyone who is doing it. If you're in there and you stay in it and you see it all the way through to a healthy relationship. You will be such a diff impression from the person that you were after the divorce because like you will have like really, really, boundaries start to happen, your authentic self, your authentic expression, conflict resolution, Developing assertiveness, confident all of that happens in that container. And you can take that, you know, into all of your other spaces and the rest of your life. So that's kind of what is happening there with that intimacy and that the fears that, you know, that come up. Now, when it comes to Alright, if he's the one or if he's someone that I want to be intimate with, Oh, my God, he's going to see my body.

Chanci Dawn: 00:15:35

Yeah. Terrifying. And especially what I found for myself, and I haven't had many clients who were going to have been going through divorce few, but mostly my friends, right? When and I have a lot of friends who, who went through that, and now they're dating and, and it's like, what I quite often find is, you weren't treated very well made, and you weren't feeling super sexy and physically connected. And you're having this beautiful, intimate relationship that felt very nourishing when you're leaving your relationship, your marriage. So going from that place into now? Oh, my gosh, like being vulnerable and intimate with someone else and in the space of fear. And can I am I safe here it is such a such a big thing.

Sade Curry: 00:16:27

It really is. There's a lot that goes into a lot of moving pieces there. The first is that there's the cultural narrative about how a woman's body plays into her relationship. Right, like a woman's body, in the space of going into a romantic relationship or wanting a romantic relationship. We've been conditioned to see our bodies as a tool for the romantic relationship. So a lot of that fear comes from, well, what if my body isn't up to snuff? To create this romantic relationship? What if my body isn't appropriately shaped, or appropriately skinny, or appropriately prickly curvy, I have clients who have been petrified about their breast size. Right? Like, oh, my God, he's gonna see my breast size and realize that they're small, or I'm not getting anyone on the apps because I am a woman of color. And they look at my face and my lips. And they're like, I don't want that, like all of those worries come because we've been conditioned to see our bodies as a tool for getting love.

Chanci Dawn: 00:17:40

Oh, hello, patriarchy?

Sade Curry: 00:17:43

Yes. Yep. And it's like, none of your body needs to conform to the standard required for the male gaze to approve of. And if you don't meet that standard, then sorry, no relationship for you. Or you have to settle for less than a good relationship, all of those inner thoughts and those fear. So the because it's high stakes situation, where even if you looked perfect by the current beauty standard, there would still be a lot of like apprehension and worry about meeting a new partner. Well, then if you don't look like the current beauty standard, and there's another layer of difficulty that's been placed on the woman, there's now another level of effort that she has to make a level of thinking and worrying. And every time you're sitting out in front of someone, it's like, what is my body good enough is my waistline, like all of those thoughts are completely, they're just a narrative. But they're millennial long narrative. Just because women were owned. And so if the man was not pleased by how you looked, you might not, you know, get purchased by a husband, which meant that your family line your, your, your sisters might not get husbands if you don't, if you're the oldest and your or your family if they're poor, and they're trying to move up in society and get access to food. All of that is built into this fear. So a lot of what is necessary for society to untangle. Okay, what's really behind this and I love I'm a certified feminist coach through Carlo and thiols program, beautiful program has really helped me give my clients answer. So instead of us working on the premise that oh, yeah, like your breasts are small, you think they're small? Okay, maybe we should, you should go ahead and do something about it, or let's change your thoughts about them. Understanding where the thoughts even come from. Yeah, it's such a relief to the women that I work with, you know, like, Oh,

Chanci Dawn: 00:19:48

those notes are keep in mind. Exactly. Yeah.

Sade Curry: 00:19:54

And then the work that has been to depending on the client to neutralize The body which I've heard you kind of refer to that too. It's like developing a relationship with the body. That's very different. Yeah. Like, what is my body really for? Versus all these things that I've been told it's for? It's for attracting a man, it's for looking good. It's for you know, me, instead of all of that, what is it really for? Or what do I decide on my bodies for? And

Chanci Dawn: 00:20:23

right back to that Northstar? What do I decide my body? As for? Yeah,

Sade Curry: 00:20:27

yeah, with some with some clients, I had them decide their own beauty standard. Like I'm like, Okay, well, you know, what, since all the beauty standards are made up? Yeah, so I'm gonna decide that I decided in a way that was beneficial to them what the beauty standard should be? How about you decide. So if they don't, clients prefer, like, you know, it's kind of like, you go down this path of that path for some be neutral about their body is really good. They're like, Oh, yeah, it's a home for my spirit. It is the vehicle with which I move through the world. It doesn't need to be quote, unquote, beautiful by any standard mine or others, it just needs to be healthy and fit and strong. And then they get to choose that. And then for other clients, for whom a standard of beauty is helpful in their thoughts, when they get to decide that standard of beauty is they get to design it, what does your nose need to look like? What does your face need to and so forth? For some clients, then changing? So breast augmentation is the right answer, because they decided for themselves after understanding this, that they did want that beauty standards like I'm choosing this. And when you choose it, it feels good, huh?

Chanci Dawn: 00:21:35

Hello, agency? I just think yes, that is everything. And it's interesting, because so much of my, what I do as a coach is body image, right, and self confidence, and I got a breast reduction and a lift. And that, and it wasn't keep coming. And I did a lot of work, right? Questioning, it took me quite a few years actually, to make that decision. So I love that you bring this up, because it's so true. What is right for you is right for you. And you get to decide that and you don't have to apologize for it. You don't have to explain yourself, you know, and for me, as a coach, there was a wrestling match, because I'm like, oh, but three kids massive boobs. And I was just like, I'm in the dating scene again, I want to feel good in my clothes. I want to wear sexy bras, you know, I want to be able to walk around with just the t shirt in my nipple show. And I'm like, Oh, yes. So I went and got it done. And never ever regret, love. Love that I did that for myself. But it did come from that place of respect for my body. Not like, I need to change this because I'm not good enough. And I'm not gonna be able to find a partner and all of this stuff. So yeah. Can you speak to that? Perhaps? How do you when women are talking about their chosen beauty standards? And what how they want to approach things this way? How do you approach that? I call it the inside out, meaning I am lovable. I'm enough. I am like hole and I'm choosing this, you know, going in the outside because it's my choice. And I want to and it's fun, right? Versus I'm not good enough, blah, blah, blah, the outside in I need to change in order to try to feel better. So in that, how do you approach that with clients when they're deciding their own their own path? And all of that?

Sade Curry: 00:23:28

Yeah, it's definitely. It's definitely a journey. It's not something we do in one coaching session. Yeah, just like you, you took a couple of years, you're a coach. So we took you a minute, it really is gonna take a minute to you know, this is not something you can rush that you can get to it at the end of one session and be like, Okay, now you have your beauty standard. Because think about it millennia of the way your mother looked at you, as a child sent messages about your body, the food that was on the table comments that were made about food, comments that were made during middle school, high school in your marriage, like you have decades of programming, and you're not going to be able to unwind it in one session. So I like to look at it as an exploration. I tell my clients, it's an exploration like, there's no ending point and there's no destination, there's no place we're trying to get to. But when you get to, when you settle into it for yourself, you will know because you will feel good and your decisions will just be they'll feel like second nature. Because the idea is not that okay, we're gonna wear sackcloth and ashes and not use makeup, although some people do end up with that with those choices. Like, okay, I'm just I'm done with makeup. That's just something that I'm not choosing. And so as the client starts to explore it, it's very, it requires a lot of honesty, because they're exploring in the midst of the narrative. And so they have to have the courage to see the narrative. When you start to see it, you can't unsee it and when You start to see it, you almost make it become at odds with everything around you. And so some of the first things that happened is a lot of complaining about like, oh, that's on TV and like candy, but believe they do that. And

Chanci Dawn: 00:25:13

this is in the magazine

Sade Curry: 00:25:17

there's a little bit of a messy middle in there because you start to see it everywhere. You see it in the comments your friends make and sometimes like I found myself like really early on, when I was little, because I am I guess we would call a slender, slender build, I have always been on the skinnier side, actually quite skinny as a young person in a college grown up in a culture in Nigeria where curvy bodies were appreciated more. So I had a nickname skinny shoddy. So people pointed out my you know, I felt, I don't know that I felt bad. But he was definitely a thing. And I remember as a young adult going on a pasta diet at 1.2. We put on weight, and he didn't work. And I was like, Okay, this is a lot of work. I mean, so I just got off the topic because I had other things I was doing. But I remember when I was going through this, you know, coaching and learning. And I remember someone I saw one of my old relatives during that period, and he called me by my nickname skinny shot and said something about how I was still skinny. And it was harmless in the sense that like normal normal in society, and I kind of snapped, I was like, listen, it's 2020, whatever. And we don't comment on women's bodies anymore. And it was like, okay, to say that in front of everybody. He wasn't trying to like he was just bringing back old time. So there's a little bit of that messiness that can happen where you just start to like, fight back against society. And then as things start to calm down, it's like, oh, okay, it's not about correcting everyone, or fixing all of this. It's about choosing from me. And so we started then narrow down that awareness to okay, you need to make some decisions for yourself. So that's what comes up there is like, the permission to even decide, oh, some fear there.

Chanci Dawn: 00:27:09

Yeah, absolutely. That comes up. Time and time again, permission is, well, actually permission is a cornerstone, it's a foundation of my entire tastes like freedom program. And so what you're speaking I'm like, absolutely. You need to give yourself permission to give yourself permission. And decide, yes,

Sade Curry: 00:27:28

yes. Give yourself permission to give yourself permission. Because what starts to come up is you being different. Like I have a coach colleague who chose not to wear makeup anymore. She doesn't wear any more makeup on Zoom and anything. And I was just like, wow, like, Oh, my goodness, actually looks gorgeous. And I'm like, I don't even know that I knew what you look like with makeup and you think you look absolutely gorgeous. And but for me, I'm like, Yeah, I kind of like the makeup theme. I like to do the makeup. But then I started choosing hairstyles that were a little different. Because I was like, you know, I just the things that you didn't think about yourself who just had to come up choices will start to sort of bubble up from the bottom from the inside as like, Oh, I wonder what would happen if I did this? Or if I didn't do this anymore? Or if I chose to do this. And so one of the things that I've done as an adult in my adult adult brain versus I was already an adult, I'm an adult, we need to start to choose comfort in my clothing. Like I'm like, if it doesn't feel good on my skin. It's just a no. So we start there. Yeah.

Chanci Dawn: 00:28:32

That's That's what am I? For sure. I actually had a friend say, your eyesight. Oh, I just, you know, really want to look, I live in this small little town in Canada, like on the west coast where everyone wears Lululemon all day, right? And I said, I'm gonna like, look classy. And she's like, well, hon, your problem is that you really like cozy. Right? And I'm like, it's not a problem without keeping it. So yeah, it was

Sade Curry: 00:28:57

clumsy and be okay with it. If everyone around you is classy. And then in even in the entrepreneurship space, can we choose what we love and believe that clients will still pay for what we're offering? And so that comes up with our clients too. So oh, can I choose to not lose the last 10 pounds of last 20 pounds and be comfortable at work? Right? Because as long as you can tell people that you're dieting, you're working on it, then it's like okay, then they give you permission to be where you are for now. But what if you're like, No, no, this is it. Yeah, this is the body that I'm choosing going forward. Then your girlfriend's your family members, a mother who might have been commenting on your weight since you were five. Deciding to tell her this is it Mom, this is the body, get on board?

Chanci Dawn: 00:29:44

Absolutely. Yes. And that giving yourself permission to do that. That is empowerment like that is freedom. There's so so much from there and then being able to step into the dating scene from that. That in and of itself is said To heal to space, write that permission to give yourself permission and like get to know yourself and move into that. Yeah, and then we're triggered. And then we're, you know, all of these different circumstances come up that we get to work on, right. So

Sade Curry: 00:30:15

men who put their body specifications in their profile, you will see those men who will comment on your body on the first date, or boyfriends who will say, Well, if you're skinny, well, I hope you never gain weight. I have a client who met someone and he's amazing. But he he made a comment one time I was like, well, as long as you never get fat, and I, you know, was coaching and I was like, What do you think about that? This is about you, and this is your body? You have to allow him to have that thought and that preference, but know what that means. For you. What do you think about it instead of okay, now he's given me this assignment, right? To stay skinny for the rest of our relationship.

Chanci Dawn: 00:30:56

Right? Yes. Oh, it brings, I actually forgot about this shot a but I had a online encounter where I was talking to this guy, and we were talking have for a couple of days, and we had a really, really good vibe. And then he asked to meet me. And I went back and looked at his profile, and just read it over. And he said something about no curvy women. And that was on the bottom. And I if I would have picked that up, I never would have like, swipe right or whatever it was at that point. And I actually was like, wow, so I wrote to him, I'm like I said, I'm curvy. I did not realize this. And and he and I would thought we'd have a conversation and he blocked me instantly. I was like, well, Goodbye, then. And thank goodness, I had done my work to be able to it was literally like a relief. Thank goodness, I didn't waste my time going and meeting with this man. So yes. And I think that that, you know, the online world can be so intimidating because of stuff like that, that especially if you have been married and you're in your 30s in your 40s. And getting back into the scene after you've had children as well, and breastfed perhaps and there's so many different things to it. So yeah, that is I'm going off on a tangent, but I just love this conversation.

Sade Curry: 00:32:22

Exactly what happens that the cultural narrative just goes everywhere, right, and even even at work, it's work, it's not appropriate to say but I mean, statistics show that bigger women have fewer opportunities to lead and to, you know, to be promoted, they're seen as lazy, the impression is that they're lazy. And actually, a lot of the more recent beauty standards came out of racism, because black women's bodies were just bigger. And in order to differentiate, so even though women's bodies were bigger as well, here, we get the Renaissance and all the paintings that was what was prized. But when slavery came, and it was like, Oh, well, we got to make sure we differentiate from them. The standard of beauty of being thinner, came up to kind of as a symbol of the class difference. And so it's everywhere. It's just in the narrative. And it's everywhere for women, for the most part, both women of color, and you know, everyone because the body, the woman's body is just considered a tool, for whatever purpose for marriage, for class for status for acknowledgement, all of that. And I think the key there is just to stop seeing or agreeing with people who see the body as a tool. Like it's not a tool for that gentleman. Your body was never a tool for his pleasure. He was mistaken.

Chanci Dawn: 00:33:51

Absolutely. Thought it was but he was mistaken. And yeah, and they also say he really missed out. Say that? No, I'm just teasing. Yeah. 100% Thank you so much for sharing that. And I think the more that we're just like you've said before, knowledge is power, when we understand where these thoughts came from, where we understand where this messed up system actually is rooted in, then we can choose better for ourselves intentionally. And that doesn't mean that it's not like the undercurrent that it's always there. Because it is right, these messages scream at us constantly. We don't even realize how loud they are. But with this, with this knowledge comes so much power to be able to choose differently. And yeah, so I love that you shared that, especially my goodness thinking like here with the slavery like, we don't want to be Baker, right? We want to stand apart and then that puts pressure on everyone and it's so damaging. It just makes me livid.

Sade Curry: 00:34:57

Yes, I mean, the eating disorder orders, the sort of the epidemic of eating disorders. This is where it comes from. I read a study that was done on, I believe it was a Pacific Island on Asian Pacific Island. And they started tracking like, at a period where they did not have television. So this was probably like back in the 70s. They didn't have televisions, or it was either they didn't have televisions, or they didn't have specific, like beauty magazines. And then the psychologist introduced the magazines and the TV shows, and then started tracking, like eating disorders and anxiety and whatever in these young women and within, I think it was within two years or three years, like a significant number in the population had developed eating disorders, and high anxiety, because now the standard was different. So you find out that Sierra and bulimia and binge eating all of that as a way to manage anxiety, or a way to manage our thoughts is like coming from just all of these thoughts of this narrative that gets created and gets disseminated. Yeah, making all of us sick.

Chanci Dawn: 00:36:10

Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you for you know, being in this niche of dating after divorce and being so educated on this truth like, I love this is stuff that I I could sit and read about forever and learn about forever. And when I talk to most people, no idea. So hearing us talk about this and being so educated in this wisdom and being in this honor where you are to be able to support women in dating after divorce. Like, that is such a gift in itself. Huge. So no wonder I was drawn to your work. I'm like, Oh my gosh, this girl is speaking my language, I

Sade Curry: 00:36:46

say all the things. My family will attest to that. I remember the day they call me like within the family context of like body image. I remember the day when my mom, my daughter had just crossed over into puberty. So she was probably about 1213, somewhere there. And my mom came to visit you that we don't see her very often. And my daughter came down the stairs I came in. And luckily my mom said in my native language, my daughter doesn't speak. And she was like, Oh, she's she's getting chubby. And I was like, No, we do not body shaming in this house. Like I was like, ready? And she was like, Oh, okay. Because I had watched my mother diet for four years. Like I was like, we're not passing that down. And I

Chanci Dawn: 00:37:32

think that I love that you brought this up too, because I've been talking a lot about this with the boundaries in the manual. You know, when you were talking about was it your uncle called you by your nickname? And then you said something, and then later you're like, well, maybe I didn't need to say that, with that in front of everyone. But that's where you are at that place. And I call it your rebel brain was like, Do you need to stick up for yourself here. So that's where you were. And that's awesome, right. And also now realizing I'm an adult, I can take care of myself. This is these words no longer hurt because I know my truth. And then on the flip side, being that advocate for your daughter being that protector, because that is a boundary and are like the generation coming up. They need us who are knowledgeable in this who have done our work to put this like, I just think it's like this bubble of truth, you know, and like we do not have space for that. So thank you for bringing all that up. I think that is really valuable for the listeners to hear. And it's just so in line with all my latest episodes. I'm like, Thank you universe, like I love that synchronous. Yeah, yes. That's just great. Okay, I Oh, my gosh, this is going by so fast. I can't believe it's

Sade Curry: 00:38:47

so much fun.

Chanci Dawn: 00:38:48

I am too I love this conversation. I knew I would. I was so looking forward to it. So I have a dear friend, one of my very best friends and she just started dating after years and years of not out of fear of the rejection aspect. And you know, lots of stuff coming through from her divorce and then moving into it. It took her a long time to heal and get ready to date. And now she is and she messaged me and she said, Oh my gosh, what if this is the guy I have to get naked in front of and she actually wrote half to write so it's like, oh, like there was just so much in that. And I would love for you to please speak to that. I know. We have to wrap this up sooner than later. But can you just speak to that and how you would coach someone through that very thing? I Yeah. So I mean that the

Sade Curry: 00:39:39

questions that I would ask that I don't know if she can answer but I'm gonna try to make a just a guess. Because and this isn't our topic but intimacy and having sex in and of itself is like a whole you know, it's a whole onion that we need to unwrap because at home the same narrative If it's bleeding into that as well, so not only I have to get naked in front of him, what is he going to think about this? But it's also then also like, well, I've only been with one person, how do all the parts work? And what if he doesn't like it? And what if I can't, like, all of that is coming into into that, which I will just throw out. If you have Netflix, watch the principles of pleasure, I highly recommend it's a show on women's sexuality. Oh, my goodness, like, so that will take care of that part. So, um, because I wish you said, the guy have to get naked in front of implies that it's the body image. It's the his desire, it's almost like, will he desire this when he sees it? So again, the body is not meant for his desire. And her being in that space of intimacy is for her. Like, I think that's the missing piece. What does she want out of that encounter? Like, in that moment, there's just so much and this is not this is just so many women will self abandon, not to shame that it's not a, this is what we're conditioned to do in order to perform for the other person with just our bodies and our sexuality. Everything is to make sure the man approves and he has a good time. And he does have a way. What if I'm the woman who needs to get naked in front of and can he?

Chanci Dawn: 00:41:38

I'm smiling on fire. And suddenly my face is my knee, like, the Cheshire Cat, whatever I'm like, exactly.

Sade Curry: 00:41:45

It has. So that's what's missing there is that she's not in touch with what she wants. She doesn't feel empowered to own what she wants, or feel the agency in a sense to say, hey, what I'm here for this, what are you here for? And how can we make it work between us? Yeah, like, has she ever had an orgasm? And does she know how to tell the guy Listen, it just doesn't end till I got my cookie. I got hope you know that, right?

Chanci Dawn: 00:42:12

Absolutely. Yes. So it really does come back to again, knowing yourself doing that, that healing work, and then going, what do I want here? Right, what am I why am I choosing to be with this man? Why am I choosing to, you know, have pleasure here with this person? And yes, I think that is just really valuable info. And then

Sade Curry: 00:42:38

questions to ask is, Is he even capable of providing that pleasure? Because when you're not asking all of those questions, we tend to then which is what happened in many of our first marriages, because we weren't in touch with our needs and our desires and our vision for our relationship? We didn't question whether this person was capable of having the experience that we wanted with us. We weren't checking for their we weren't checking their resume on whether they could be healthy and emotionally intelligent and all that they were just like, Okay, take me. But when you come knowing exactly what you want, and what you're looking for, then you can properly evaluate the man to say, Okay, well, I don't know, if you really are going to make be able to, like, create the sexual experience that I want, or the emotional experience that I want. It's really empowering to have that. So like a job description for your partner. And it's not, you don't force or coerce the other person to meet that job description. You just look for the person who's uniquely qualified. And already comes with every skill that matches what you're looking for.

Chanci Dawn: 00:43:40

Mm hmm. Yeah. I yeah, I think back to my, to my own marriage, and I was like, Miss fake it fake, fake, right. And then after, when I started intimate with other people, like, mainly there's one other person and I had an orgasm, and I was just like, oh my gosh, this is what it's like to be in my body to actually be present to be here for myself, not just because it's an obligation as a wife, right? Like it was such a different such a different game, like completely

Sade Curry: 00:44:16

so crazy about that is that not only are so many women having to perform that duty as an obligation, they're under pressure to pretend Yeah, they're enjoying it.

Chanci Dawn: 00:44:28

But I was gonna make a bunch of sex noises like I was really good at doing that wants to hear probably no one

Sade Curry: 00:44:37

will be mad and the expression of enjoyment Yeah, without actually providing the pleasure. It's like this, isn't it? And it's like cell phone is an inanimate object and I'm like, okay, perform the duty for me cell phone buddies that don't require my cell phone to like tell me to enjoin.

Chanci Dawn: 00:44:56

So good night You're just so true. It's so true. So yes, understanding, you know, to wrap this up like this, like this one topic, understanding your authentic truth, your standards of beauty, your desires, your pleasure, your why, and making that the focus and then like attracting a partner that you're like, yes, this actually aligns with that. Right, not needing to look for perfection, but like, this aligns with that. And like you said, now, we have this to grow on and learn how to communicate our needs and desires. And you know, all of that stuff, right? Don't actually like the word needs, but that slipped in there. But are you okay?

Sade Curry: 00:45:42

Yeah, what you want what you're looking for, if

Chanci Dawn: 00:45:45

you don't even know what they are? Absolutely, yes. And for yourself, too, right. So when you're thinking about intimacy, if you don't actually know what you desire, and who you are, it's really impossible to go into an intimate situation and communicate that and I think that that just like you're saying, compounds, this body image insecurity issue. 100%. Yeah. Okay, so last thing, when, here's the woman, and she's like, managed her mind through all this hopefully got coached from you. And she's like, Okay, first intimate encounter, I'm doing this. And here she is in her in her power, and getting undressed, or being undressed, whatever. And that brat brain, who I call that primal brain, that's what we call her here on the show starts up which that will happen because of conditioning. Right? So what would you say? How would you coach someone through that?

Sade Curry: 00:46:49

Yeah. So one, I mean, hopefully, you know, the the loudness, the intensity of that voice has been turned down, which is kind of what you end up doing with coaching. And then latter thoughts. And just some, like, you know, it's turned down, but it's still there. What I found is that understanding why the thought is there is so helpful understanding why the brain continues to say those things is helpful. And in this case, it's more than likely because hey, this is unfamiliar. Like, we just haven't done this before, or haven't done this before with this person, or in this way. Of course, my brain is going to have something to say about it. Like that lower brain, the anxiety and the fear when we even when we're getting ready to do something amazing. That's just normal. It's my brain, asking me to double check, right? I know what I'm doing. And so becoming aware that it's just a double check, because you do want to have your fear brain working, especially in an intimate situation, what if something goes wrong? You don't want your fear brain to like, just shut down? Why everything that happens, you want it to be like, Hey,

Chanci Dawn: 00:47:56

are you sure? Okay, maybe

Sade Curry: 00:47:57

this we This doesn't feel right. Something doesn't feel you want it to be able to speak up when something doesn't feel right. But in the case where everything is right, for sure. You want to be able to hey, I double checked, and we're okay. I love that.

Chanci Dawn: 00:48:09

I just had this image of like this, this lower brain, your brat brain, being like a friend texting you in the bathroom, right? Before you go out? Oh, right. Hey, all these things or you can text her back. This is good. Don't worry, I'm safe. Thank you for caring, we can do this and going in and not being like, something's wrong, because my brain has these thoughts and this pattern, and I've worked so hard through this and or trying to, you know, resist it, resist it. It's like what I'm hearing you say is exactly in line with what I love and how I coach. It's, I acknowledge, notice, and then be like, okay, and gently. Now, this is what we're going to do. And even in the discomfort.

Sade Curry: 00:48:52

Yeah, yeah, for sure. And intimacy, I think for woman dating after divorce her. I also hear a lot of rules. So especially for my religious ladies who are like, like the sometimes they bring the old rules, yeah. into their dating journey, like, Okay, well, you can't have sex, and everybody on the apps wants to have sex? Or what if you expect me to have sex? And can I really expect to date after divorce without having sex? Yeah. And one of the things I want to say is that, like, this is a really great time to explore your values, which I don't even I don't even like to use the word values around sex because it's what I think that's the layman's terms, just because people come from different places and they make different choices. So for some people, it's still a matter of value to have sex or not have sex, but I want to encourage everyone to like decide a new it's almost like redesign aid, your value because I find a lot of women after divorce are trying to still force themselves into the values that got them into the wrong marriage in the first place. Right, like I was told, okay, you're gonna be a virgin before you get married. Eat and all of that. And that guarantees the promise was that guarantees that you have a healthy marriage. Well, that wasn't true.

Chanci Dawn: 00:50:09

Oh, yes, we had the same

Sade Curry: 00:50:14

thing, even even even in non Christian environments where my background was was Christian, in culture culturally, or whatever, it's not shaming, it's just a theme. And what I want to encourage everyone to do, and coaching really helps with this because, you know, you might not like no other variables to bring into it is to really decide what you do want to do. After your divorce, like, remember, you got married at 19? You 21 Like that was all four or five years of like, I might have done something different or chosen different or, you know, what do I consider appropriate in a dating situation? At what time me now my pastor, not my mother, not anybody, just me, because some of the divorce women have coached because of that narrative of you need to be a virgin married people who could not perform.

Chanci Dawn: 00:51:08

Absolutely, I married my husband, because we did have sex, and I felt like damaged goods. I'm like, no one else is gonna want me. So here I am. Like, yeah, so

Sade Curry: 00:51:23

for me, one of the things that I decided was I was like, okay, all the time that I need to figure out if the machinery works. Like that's just the thing, right? We do that there's all kinds of ways. Yeah, I need to know that.

Chanci Dawn: 00:51:38

Yeah, exactly. Discover yourself and know, like, exactly. And then you know, what you want, and all of that. So good. I was gonna say I remember like, that was me heading into marriage and being like, okay, yep. This is why I'm getting married and walking down the aisle and actually crying going, what in the heck am I doing right? And then like, however, many years later, I decided, I'm going to really break this, like paradigm shift. It's a paradigm shift and breaking this for myself. And I like hit on and slept with my carpenter.

Chanci Dawn: 00:52:08

First. I needed to do that for myself. And I wanted to it was a fun choice. I'm like, totally, I was really into Desperate Housewives that show at the time, and I'm like, I absolutely feel like a desperate housewife. And it's so fun. I like painting your nails, where this little dress went out. Like, Hey, so what are you doing after? And? Oh, my gosh, yeah. And really, really empowering experience. So fun. So fun, and so empowering for me. And then there was like, I had to work on the guilt and the shame and after. And I did. And that was a huge part of my healing and growth in this like so. So yes. And that might not be right for everyone.

Sade Curry: 00:52:54

But I do know that and there isn't exploration that I think everyone needs. Yeah, actually get this right. And whether their exploration is internal or reading or exploring physically, like, you won't know until you really sit with it. However you decide to sit with it, however you choose to sit with it. And what's interesting is that there's so many ways to sit with this. Mm hmm. Right? Like, there are some women who just explore their own pleasure with themselves, which I highly recommend, by the way, because, you know, you might not want to be like, Okay, listen, I don't want to kiss like so many people. But what if you explored your own sexuality for yourself, there are coaches, who will help you explore your sexuality, there are coaches who will teach you the parts of the vulva and how they work and you know how to teach your partner to pleasure you because maybe he hasn't spent any time trying to figure it out. Well, maybe he had an

Chanci Dawn: 00:53:47

ex wife who faked all the times. Like none of us are doing anyone any any good.

Sade Curry: 00:53:56

Yeah. So the exploration for sure. is a must. Yeah, however, each individual chooses to go about that. Yeah.

Chanci Dawn: 00:54:05

This has just been so fun. I have loved this conversation. i Oh, my gosh, thank you so much for coming on here. And do you have any while Please give me one last word of wisdom for women who are going into this dating after divorce round, whether it's like body image or otherwise, whatever is really, like in your heart right now.

Sade Curry: 00:54:27

Yeah, I think the big thought that I hear just across all the issues is am I going to do this wrong like women worrying about doing it wrong, we mean second guessing themselves, questioning their own personal authority, their own personal sovereignty, like it's all of it comes back to, you know, personal sovereignty and autonomy. And that's, that's really the journey like that's, that's that is the key to all the pieces. It is the key to finding the guy and it's the key to intimacy. It's the key to healing your body image. It's the key to resolving your past man. Ateneo, what happened in there is the ability to look at it and say, Oh, this is where this is where these were my thoughts when I chose that this is why I decided to do that I'm taking responsibility or ownership of that. But then also, there's all this other stuff that isn't mine. And so and then looking at the world from that, from that new land, so I think, you know, going on a journey to really own yourself, own your life, will, will resolve everything. And so every time you find yourself questioning yourself, second guessing yourself criticizing a decision that you've made, or you're going to make thinking you might do it wrong in whatever area, that is the that is the route. That is where you want to sit with why am I not feeling like a sovereign human, within my own skin to go on this journey? And I think that's where a lot of coaching, and a lot of exploration and personal growth can be very, very helpful.

Chanci Dawn: 00:55:56

Oh, absolutely. Thank you. That was great wisdom. I think this is going to be an episode that people need to listen to over and over and over again. Like, there's so many I'm going to I'm like, you know, I've definitely found i but who I believe is love of my life, right? Where you were a year and a half in now. And I'm like, this is this is so special. And I've in this conversation, there's just been so many things that have like, hit home for me again, right, like, focus on this sometimes even, it's interesting in this relationship. It's I've done so work on that 17 Like, there's little things that I'm seeing that I'm compromising on right now. You know, there's things like this, and this conversation has just been so valuable for that for myself. So whether you're dating, going through a divorce, you know, in a relationship, there's just so much here. So it is the same

Sade Curry: 00:56:49

work. Absolutely. I tell my clients, sometimes they look at me like, Well, you're in your relationship. I'm like, No, I do this work. Every day, I play husband and I constantly pushing on each other's boundaries. Yeah, I like having to realign a redraw the lines, like I'm having to throw find myself, we've gone on three dates, you know, doing the kinds of things he loves, and I've forgotten the stuff that I love the work, it's the same work at every stage. So all of this is just practice for what you'll be doing in that healthy relationship.

Chanci Dawn: 00:57:20

Totally. And I think it really lends itself so well to you know, what I do and healing the relationship with body and food in that it's non linear, right? Like it's it's not like here you are and then you arrive. This is like an upside like, oh, you know, I was gonna say upside down roller coaster sometimes it's like a wavy, you know, it's just and and staying focused on that Northstar. And then having supports coaches, otherwise friends, people who really have your back to remind you to have your own back again and again again, right. I just so good. Oh, my gosh, thank you. This is

Sade Curry: 00:58:01

such a fun conversation.

Chanci Dawn: 00:58:03

Absolutely. I'm like, kind of now I just want to be like, talking to you all the time. It's the Sade and chancI show. That sounds fun. It actually would be I'm sure. Okay. Well, you have a great day and listeners, please share this episode with your best friend. Whether she's divorced, you know, post divorce, dating, happily married, like we said it? Absolutely. It just speaks to all because we all need to be doing this work. So make sure you share it and thank you for listening. Take care.