How to Not Diet with Special Guest Celeste Mackenzie | Ep. 20

Chanci Dawn: 00:00:05

This show is about freedom. Freedom from your constant struggle with food and letting the size of your thighs determine your worth. Join me weekly for no whole fat, unfiltered girlfriend kind of conversations that will inspire, teach and empower you. As we tune into our own body's wisdom and tune out of the diet industry lives, we can live our most radiant, pleasurable and fulfilled lives. My name is Chanci dawn. I'm a non diet nutritionist embodiment and mindset coach. But most importantly, I'm a woman on a mission to grow a deeply connected and conscious relationship with food and my body. And I'm here inviting you to do the same. Let's go.

Chanci Dawn: 00:00:53

Okay, so welcome to today's episode. I'm really excited because I have my girl with me. So her name is Celeste, and I'll let her introduce herself. So SAS, why don't you just share what your how old you are. And One fun fact about yourself.

Celeste Mackenzie: 00:01:12

I'm 14, and I like drawing and Burton all about different types of animals and like, different information about them. Mm hmm.

Chanci Dawn: 00:01:21

And she's always telling me all sorts of stuff about them. And she's really she was really into these cat books called warriors. And she told me all sorts of fun facts, and I don't remember any of them. But she's really smart kid. And I'm really really proud of her and super happy to have her here. Because I think there's just so much we can learn from her today, whether you're an adult healing your own relationship with food and your body. OR, AND and OR if you're a grandmother and a mom or a friend of a young girl, who you're really just wanting to inspire, and encourage and guide to have her healthy relationship with food and her body. So this is completely unrehearsed Celeste and I this morning after our waffle breakfasts, I was like, Okay, so we're gonna, you're gonna do a podcast with me today. And she looks at me and she's like, I am like, Absolutely, because she's just, it's just been really neat. We've had a lot of conversations lately, about body confidence. In the summer, I did a post about her on social media. And that really inspired a lot of people, as well as myself. And just seeing her and her relationship with food is just blowing my mind. I It's so beautiful. So I thought it'd be fun to have a chat. Like I said, it's not rehearsed. I'm just going to ask her some questions. I told her, there's no wrong answers. I'm probably going to learn more about her myself today. And yeah, I'm really looking forward to this. So thanks. So let's

Celeste Mackenzie: 00:02:55

say to talk about different different stuff that I've learned over the years and the different foods that and learning that, like myself, me, myself had learned that no, food is bad, no matter what you do, like, people might say that sugar is bad and like, veggies are good. But both of them are good. Like, if you want to have a certain type of food and just have it that it's not a bad thing. You can just have it whenever you want. As long as you know when to stop when you need to.

Chanci Dawn: 00:03:31

Yeah, totally. And we'll talk more about that. But I love that you started with that. So let's why don't we just go back to when you were little. And if you can remember because I was practicing as a nutritionist really thick into the diet industry. And in my own life, I was really just so caught up in all of the lies that they tell us. And yeah, so there was a lot of well let's let's actually explain it What was it like growing up with me when you were little when it came to quote unquote, treats and sugar and all that stuff? Like even you know, hot dogs at birthday parties or whatever? What was that like for you?

Celeste Mackenzie: 00:04:15

I felt like when I did have a sugar that was very, very special. And I had to be careful to like and have as much as I can at that exact moment. Because I wouldn't know when I'd have it again. And I got both like certain healthy foods I went to our house because I'm just I was just so used to having that and I have so much that I kind of got sick of it and like I like the sweet stuff because it felt different to me like more tasty since I barely ever got and I remember whenever I go to a friend's house or something, when ever they offer me candy, or like some type of sugary thing I need the say yes and like never Ending eating. Timing there. And now I can actually stop myself and think, do I actually want this? Or is it just my brain being like, Oh, you need that. So you won't get again, like I did when I was younger. But now I'm able to actually stop when I need to.

Chanci Dawn: 00:05:18

Okay, so that's really interesting. So let's just rehash that. So when you were little, I kept sugar from you. Yeah, barely anything. It was. Yes. Like a lot of fear around a did you feel like that? Yeah, kinda. Yeah. Yeah. And then what kind of stuff did you want that wasn't around?

Celeste Mackenzie: 00:05:44

Mostly waiting meals, like different kinds of kinds of cookies and like chocolate and that kind of stuff.

Chanci Dawn: 00:05:49

Right? Right. So that wasn't around. And did it seem like naughty food to you? Or, like, tell me more about that? What did you think about it?

Celeste Mackenzie: 00:06:00

I felt like, I'm wrong. Whatever I had, like, kept on feeling like, I shouldn't have this, this isn't good. And that, if I have too much, then bad things will happen and stuff. Like, I didn't know exactly what kind of bad things would happen. But I always felt like if I had it, like too much, that I won't be able to, like, do anything else.

Chanci Dawn: 00:06:25

Right. Okay. So, but then, when you were away from me, and you're at friend's houses, or you're at like a birthday party, you would just go and eat it in a new? Yeah, so you've said a little bit before that you couldn't stop? What did that feel like to you?

Celeste Mackenzie: 00:06:43

Like, just like, um, I'd have a box, like, say, I have a box of cookies in front of me. And I just had, like, it was my feet, like, I never ever got and then someone offered it to me. I'm like, wait, wait, this is once in a lifetime, I won't have it like, in so on. And you have as much as I can. So I won't miss it as much when I don't have it. And that when I do have it. I can like, feel like I'm enjoying it more. So I could, like, make sure that I don't feel like I missed out on anything. Okay,

Chanci Dawn: 00:07:25

yeah, that's so common. And it's crazy. Because as when you were little as your mom, I thought I was just really, really helping you like being like, okay, no sugar, no sugar, and sugar is bad. And, you know, all of this. And I did not realize that that's what was happening. And it wasn't actually until I really started studying the human brain about when, you know, when we don't have full access to food. And then what happens it's our brain only wants that. Because just like you're saying, you're saying it so beautifully that your brains like this is last time I'm gonna get it. So thank you for sharing that. So did you ever sneak food? Like steal food, you know, not steal, but like, take food and sneak it and eat it when I didn't know.

Celeste Mackenzie: 00:08:11

I don't remember doing that. Mostly because I was thinking that like being all worried, like, Oh, if I did this and took a nap. I mean, I never want you to get me. And then I always be not my brothers Jacob never because they'd always be doing that. I'm like, You can't do that. Mobile can man. Be careful.

Chanci Dawn: 00:08:34

You've always wanted. We've actually talked lately about it's okay for us to make mistakes, right? And to always be like the good girl. Yeah, we just want you to be you. So, but your brother's definitely, for sure. And I remember finding like rappers or whatever, they get candy from school, and I wouldn't let them have it. So they'd hide it. And then I would find wrappers in the room.

Celeste Mackenzie: 00:09:00

I always remember like, if I did actually once or twice have candy, but I remember feeling so guilty afterwards. Like I had to tell you,

Chanci Dawn: 00:09:10

yeah. guilty for having the candy or for sneaking it. Both are both Yeah, interesting. And guilt doesn't help us at all. Hey, ya know, you learned we've learned that now. There was a lot of guilt in their early years. So yeah, definitely. And so if you're listening to this, and this sounds like the relationship that you have with food, or that your kids do just really bring in a lot of compassion. There's no guilt involved in this. It's just learning. And this is a journey. So I'd love to talk more about Celeste own journey as things changed. So what happened with me is, if you've listened to like, I think it's the second episode or the first one my own journey to embodied eating. I went through a lot of different experiences. And then finally I was just like, No I've had enough. So I'm going to heal my relationship with food and learn to love and respect my body as it deserves. And through that process, I really started to approach things differently for myself and therefore my kids. So can you share this is we've never talked about this. So this is going to be really interesting. But can you share what it was like for you? When we started having Oreo cookies and puddings or whatever having that drawer in our house? And we've called it the tree drawer. But we're we're working to get away from that. Because we it's just a it's just food, right? It's our food jar. Yeah, it's our pleasure foods for

Celeste Mackenzie: 00:10:43

yummy food.

Chanci Dawn: 00:10:46

So what was it like for you, honey, when I started buying that stuff?

Celeste Mackenzie: 00:10:50

I remember being really surprised, like, almost like, is this true? Am I really good be able to have all this whenever I want. And I remember at the start, I did have quite a bit like, try and get as much as I can to my brothers don't have that kind of salaries. And now I'm we're like, if I wanted to go get if I don't want it, then they'll have something else. So I always make sure to also make sure that I'm actually hungry, not just like bored or something. And if I'm bored, I try to distract myself with other stuff, like drawing or eating or that kind of stuff, not food, because it's not like that's naturally healthy to be able like to keep on eating and eating. Like non stop just because you're bored. That's, I feel like that's not a good way to entertain yourself.

Chanci Dawn: 00:11:48

Hmm. beautifully put. Yes. And it's, we talk about how we have food for two different reasons. One is to nourish our bodies, right. And the other one is for pleasure. Yeah. So when we're, when we eat when we're bored, you know, or to entertain ourselves like that. We can start with pleasure, but quickly kind of tune out, right? Yeah. So what is that experience like for you in the past? When you're like, Okay, I'm gonna have, for example, these chips for pleasure. And then you keep eating them and eating them and eating them for entertainment. What is that like for you?

Celeste Mackenzie: 00:12:25

Like, almost like I thinking, I'm bored. And like, I have nothing to do, I don't want to do that. Like, don't worry, I don't want to go on my phone. I don't want to do any of that. And I'm like, I need to find a new way to entertain myself. And I see trips and like, I'm also kind of hungry, and then just eat chips. And then I kind of feel like I can't like when I was younger, I can't stop and you're in and you keep on eating to keep on entertaining myself. And I feel like if I don't stop eating them immediately go get bored again, that's on you find another way to entertain myself. So I just keep on eating until I can find a brand new way to like not be bored anymore. Right? Almost. Well,

Chanci Dawn: 00:13:14

if that ever happens again. Just let me know. Because we have three bathrooms in the house. You can wash if you're bored.

Celeste Mackenzie: 00:13:23

I feel like that should be everyone's job.

Chanci Dawn: 00:13:28

You're like so put out No? Waiting, then I know how much you love weeding. She hates weeding.

Celeste Mackenzie: 00:13:37

worst thing to ever do that. That's the last thing. Yeah.

Chanci Dawn: 00:13:43

So, so funny. So what we're really talking about here in the language that I use on this podcast is fog eating. Right. So that's when you start eating for something for pleasure, or you're making dinner and you're just kind of tuned out, checked out and stressed or whatever. And you're just eating everything around you without paying attention. And when you do that, whether you're you know, you had some chips, and then all sudden you're just watching a show, and you just keep eating and eating and eating. When you're doing that. You think it's because it's for fun. It's for pleasure. It's for entertainment. But when you're tuned out, you're actually not experiencing the pleasure that that food will be giving you. So that's what we talk about, like when we talk about buffering, right? Or buffering our emotions or distracting ourselves. And we can do that. It's not like it's bad to do it. But it just doesn't serve our bodies because our bodies really do deserve the best, right? So if it's not for fuel, and it's not for pleasure, and it's just to tune out. Let's like, love ourselves to the point where we're like, you know what, I'm actually going to go and read a book or I'm going to go and clean my mom's toilet or

Chanci Dawn: 00:14:59

you But it's really about that awareness part. But what's really important is not to have guilt. Right? So Celeste, if you find yourself sitting there and watching TV and eating chips just for entertainment or tuning out, not really even realizing it. It's not a bad thing. It's just an opportunity to go, oh, what does my body really need right now? And what do I really need right now? Right? So I guess a little parenting is happening here. Like, oh, here's an opportunity to share this with Celeste. But anyways, you do such a beautiful job of honoring your body, honey, and I just I love it when I see you sitting there, having, you know, vegetables, and I love it sitting there when you're enjoying Oreo cookies, right? Like, it's all the same. And I love that you're saying how now, you know, it's not going to go away? Right. So what is that experience? So you said in the beginning, you would overeat a lot and a lot, a lot of it or you know, tried to take it so your brothers didn't get it? Yeah, so it's been quite a few years now. Right? And we've had a lot of like, just living it living the embodied eating way. So what is that like for you now with the stuff in our home that I used to forbid,

Celeste Mackenzie: 00:16:17

I feel like, now I feel since it's basically always in their house, like in the foods drawer, they can always verify, like, feel like I want a cookie or something. I feel like, if I want it, I'll go and get it. If I don't want it. I can, like, don't feel tempted to go and get more because I know it will always be there and that I don't have to compete to guess, like to get because if we run out, we'll just go get more and it will, like, like I say will always be there and I like don't have to feel like oh no, it's won't be there anymore. I have as much as I can. So I like when it's gone. I feel happy and that. I feel like

Chanci Dawn: 00:17:11

I hear what you're saying. Yeah, you're saying like, it's there. It's always gonna be there. If you want it, I'll buy it for you. So there's no rush. It's like there's not this charge to go and just eat it. And eat it. Yeah. So what do I let you guys keep in your room ever since like, for a long many years now? In your fish Tackle Box? What's in their candy? Yeah, your candy collection. So what did you think when I first was like, you can have all the candy that you get from Halloween, Easter, Christmas, birthday parties, whatever in your room? What did that feel like to you?

Celeste Mackenzie: 00:17:47

is really exciting. Like, oh my gosh, I can't even I can't even do that. It was also kind of stressed out. Like, what if I have it all in one night? Like, I can't control myself? No, they just have all that. And then I won't have any work at all, I'll be gone. But now I feel more like it's there when I want still. And I like I don't want to, like barely ever have can you? Like, I only have it for like movie nights where I'm like, I want a special treat. They go special food to have when I'm watching the movie, and I feel like even when I'm not watching a movie or doing something special, I feel like I can still have it. As long as I'm careful and don't over eat on the candy. So what does overeat mean to you? They keep on eating like over and over and over again and like, eat until I'm so full that I feel like I'm gonna throw up and then I won't be able to eat a single more thing. So that's

Chanci Dawn: 00:18:58

what you used to do. Yeah, yeah. And now you're like, there's my candy collection. I can have it when I want. Yeah, yeah, it's so neat. And I really did notice that. So if you're listening to this, and your kids are hyper obsessed with wanting sugar, I encourage you to just try this out, like, let it be there. Let them have it. Because it's called habituation. And the more that they're exposed, and the more they have it, the less charge it will have in their brain. And I didn't believe this at first. But you know, with it's happened with all three of my kids, it has worked it has been the total turnaround. And I love hearing Celeste explanation of it because it's just so fun for me going, oh my goodness, thank goodness this works, and that they didn't just sit there and eat like all the candy all the time. So that's just so cool. So let's say you live in two homes, so we're 5050 So you're with me for a week and then with your dad for a week. And things are a little bit different. There are a lot different for you, right? Yeah. So we've talked about this a lot, because when you're parenting, whether you're in the same home or in different homes with your child's part where your child's other parent, it, it can be hard when you have different philosophies and different approaches. So this is where I think you know, when they're littler, I think it'd be more difficult. But I feel like Celeste has just He equipped herself so well. And she has just really come into this embodied eating lifestyle so well that the way she's handled things on the other end really, really inspires me. So Celeste, we know that your dad and his wife have the best intentions for you. Right? So we talk about that and things. They just have different thoughts and different different,

Celeste Mackenzie: 00:20:50

a different approach to Earth. And like, Yeah, different things that they look at that help them like help tell them what is good and bad,

Chanci Dawn: 00:21:01

right. So different, different thoughts. And there's a lot of you'll find, it's rare for someone to really embrace, it's still rare, it's going to become more and more, because there's more of us, dietitian, dietitians, and nutritionists and coaches out there really talking about this stuff. Okay, so the education is coming more and more. And, but it's still rare. And what Celeste is finding in the other home is a lot of the infiltration of the diet culture message. Okay, yeah. So so let's just share your experience there. And definitely we don't need to, you know, be negative about anyone or anything like that, but what's your, your own personal experience? And how do you deal with this? Like,

Celeste Mackenzie: 00:21:43

um, I, my dad shows, they still do, like candies a treat. And you can only get a certain times, like, when we do get candy, we're only like, like two pieces. And it's done, like, gotten away, like gone in the garbage. And like, all that kind of stuff. And they've also tried picking me on stuff like diets before and that kind of stuff. And I've made clear to them that I don't want to go on diets, because I'm won't be able to save for myself. Like, who I think is good. And when I'm hungry, I want to eat and when I'm not hungry, I can I have the control over my body to not eat well, I'm not hungry and like, think, Am I hungry or a major sport. And if I'm just boring, I'll do something else. Like I won't eat. But I feel like they still don't really understand that. And they were like, hide me, from all the different sugars and the candy and stuff thinking if we give this to her, she'll go non stop in it, they don't trust me to be able to do that stuff. And so try to explain to them that I'm able like to control myself, and they don't need to hide me from it. But sometimes they don't still don't understand that. And that's really interesting,

Chanci Dawn: 00:22:58

because we teach and what we know, right? So if there's someone who's thinking that you can't be trusted with food, it's really usually because they don't know how to trust themselves right around the food and it can be really rooted in, in the confusion and fear. So wasn't there also, like, wanting you to fast that happened to right? Yeah, explain that.

Celeste Mackenzie: 00:23:24

Um, like, couple years ago when I was, um, so a little, like, little bit younger they. They have a daughter and she is like, a little bit bigger than most girls. And they started making her fast trying to make her a little bit skinnier. But then they saw how she saw that I wasn't fasting start getting jealous. So they're like, in order to make our like, our dollar, not just we need to make the slowest, also fast, so she doesn't feel like so our kid doesn't feel left out. And so they made me fast, like, no breakfast. Well, they wouldn't have breakfast for me. And they were able to have all like breakfast, lunch and dinner, but nothing in between us. Not a single thing. And my dad was like, give me stuff in between. But my stepmom didn't want me having that stuff. And she gets mad at my dad for giving me that stuff.

Chanci Dawn: 00:24:32

Right. Okay. So but Was there ever a time when they didn't want you to have breakfast and you were supposed to skip that?

Celeste Mackenzie: 00:24:39

I don't. They might have I don't quite remember. Okay, but my stepsister she has not had breakfast before. Right. Right.

Chanci Dawn: 00:24:49

Okay. So yeah, so I think it's really interesting because Celeste is a really good example of when you're around people, right who are really caught up in the diet mentality and fat phobia of how to take care of yourself in it. You know, and Celeste has experienced both. So it's just really neat because she she stood up for herself, right? And even when it was like, No, you can eat, you went to your dad, and what did you say?

Celeste Mackenzie: 00:25:18

I said, I don't want to be fasting, that's not something that I feel comfortable with, I won't be able to eat, where I want to eat and not eat where I don't want to eat. And then he talked to my stepmom, and they did have a fight. But at the end, he ended up telling me that I'm allowed to do like each one I want again, I'm really proud

Chanci Dawn: 00:25:42

of you, honey, because that's a big thing to stand up for yourself and your body. And you do a beautiful job. Really, really good. So proud of you. And that's really cool that your dad honored that for you. Yeah, I'm really happy to hear that. So this is a question I've never asked the last. So I'm really interested to hear what she says. But Celeste being a 14, almost 15 year old girl, right? There's a lot of influence, whether it's on your social media, friends, you know, all sorts of different things, saying that smaller is better, smaller is better, right? So have you ever thought about dieting yourself?

Celeste Mackenzie: 00:26:21

I have thought about it. And like, I've never ever actually want to do it. But I have thought of like what other people have done. And I have had things like on YouTube where they've been, like things pop up saying, Oh, do this and you'll get skinnier. And they'll do that. And you'll get skinnier and like, I don't want to do that. I want to be able to do that either. I was not eat when I want. And I feel like if I do the dieting, but I won't feel like I won't have as much control for my body. So I try my like, I stay away from that stuff. And I've just like, I still get videos like that on my free page on YouTube. But I always like, go away. And I'm like, No, I don't want to do that. Like I've made the decision myself that that's not what I want to do. And then my pin to stay like that. And like I'm paying to stick with not wanting to do that stuff.

Chanci Dawn: 00:27:26

Yeah, honey, I'm really proud of you. And what you'll find, stay never dieting, right? Like all the women I work with, and myself have had a life of dieting, which is so common. And that's why they struggle with food. That's actually why they struggle in so many different ways with body confidence and all the different things. And quite often, you know, when when you die it what will happen is your body will go Oh, no, she's starving, right, we need to help her. So your body does stuff to make you gain weight, and usually gain weight more than you were in the first place. And this creates such a nasty cycle. And we've never talked about this before. But the best way to stay healthy for your entire life is to never die. It never did that in the first place. So I love that. And the other thing is like you were saying you see these videos, and sometimes you think about it. That's normal. And it's totally okay, to be tempted, right? Or to think maybe I should do this. Maybe I want to that's really normal for your brain to go there. But what we always want to do, like you said is go back to what you've chosen for yourself, and remind yourself why Yeah,

Celeste Mackenzie: 00:28:38

but is it just my brain? Like, oh, that's a good idea. I have to do that? Or is it actually? And then, like your brain might say that kind of stuff. And then you have to go back and be like, What do I actually think is good for me? What do I actually want to I want to fast and like, feel like I can't eat where I want to eat? Or do I want to eat? Like, whenever and feel like you have, like all the control from your body?

Chanci Dawn: 00:29:08

Mm hmm. Yeah, honey, that's so good. And it's just about like, respecting your body. Hey, yeah, you do such a good job of that. And I loved seeing you this summer just being so free and running around in your bathing suits. Being and having you know, food, that's fuel and having food. That's pleasure and just being so free with it and what you have and how you live and how you think is what every single woman listening to this podcast desires. So I think it's just so inspiring to hear you and to know that this is possible, right? So well done. Very proud of you. And I'd like to have you back on the show to talk about your body body confidence and what it's like being a teenage girl with all these messages coming at you and how you how you do With that, and how you choose to think and how you move forward. Okay, would you like to come back? Cool. Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you, Honey, this is so cool. Is there anything else you want to say?

Celeste Mackenzie: 00:30:14

I can't think of any notes.

Chanci Dawn: 00:30:16

Is there any advice you'd like to give moms grandmas, aunts friends in how to talk or how to raise girls like you who have, you know, a really free relationship with food? Is there any advice you can give,

Celeste Mackenzie: 00:30:32

always be careful of where you get the information you are teaching your kids about, and make sure that it's not like the like, make sure to actually search up the information, like over and over again, make sure that's the actual correct information. And not just the first thing you saw and think, oh, that that's what I need to do like that, which will help my,

Chanci Dawn: 00:30:58

like, fasting you make Yeah, right. So well, beautiful advice. And I just want to plug this little this show this podcast in because you will get the right information here. So if you're in doubt, listen to the podcast. Connect with me. I will answer all your questions. And if there's any teenage questions that I don't know, I will ask Celeste and she will answer them for you because you heard it here. This is freedom. I am so impressed with her. I learned so much from Celeste and so inspired from her constantly. So it's so cool. I love you. Have a good day, everyone and thank you for listening to the show.